[16:13] <LB> let's see[16:14] <LB> we've got: Divemaster, Soundmaster, Pythonmaster, Spanishmaster, Clubmaster, Danmaster, Gamemaster, forehead, Javamaster, Outcast, and Flashmaster.[16:14] <LB> though personally I prefer C++[16:16] <Looki> what[16:16] <Looki> oh[16:16] <Looki> nickname time[16:16] <Looki> I'm Soundmaster? :P[16:17] <Eliyahu> I'm Gamemaster?[16:17] <Eliyahu>

[16:17] <Mathias> 'python' ???[16:17] <Looki> well I can see that[16:17] <Eliyahu> Mathias should just be Everythingmaster[16:19] <Eliyahu> i dont see why i was Gamemaster.  Mathmaster would be better u_u[16:19] <Eliyahu> Game_Master already exists[16:19] <LB> *Mathmaster[16:19] <LB>

[16:19] <Eliyahu> or Batemaster[16:19] <Eliyahu> <_<[16:19] <LB> no[16:19] <Eliyahu> thats prodigy.[16:20] <LB> but Looki yeah because you're doing all these sound-related exts[16:20] <Looki> 2[16:20] <LB> sound player, sound generator, openal, the example[16:20] <Looki> the first 2 are just one I split up later[16:20] <LB> and the really old mic object[16:20] <Looki> lol[16:20] <LB> pitch[16:20] <Looki> damn it[16:20] <LB> lol[16:20] <Looki> well sound is underrated[16:21] <LB> dynamic music in videogames is underrated[16:21] <LB> Vessel is the only game I've seen so far that does it well[16:22] <Looki> I own Vessel but I've never played it[16:22] <Danny> LB, surely you coulda come up with a better nickname for me!

[16:23] <LB> I don't know you very well

[16:23] <Danny>

[16:23] Danny passes LB his autobiography
[16:23] Pharanygitis has left the room
[16:23] <LB> I'd like to see your manual instead[16:23] <LB>

[16:23] Danny doesn't have one
[16:23] Danny is a prototype
[16:23] <Outcast> how do vessel use dynamic sounds?[16:24] <LB> dynamic MUSIC[16:24] <LB> the music gets better as you start solving the puzzle[16:24] <LB> and when you do certain things it changes the music[16:24] <Looki> it probably just fades layers of music in and out[16:24] <LB> adds or removes loops[16:24] <LB> yeah[16:24] <Outcast> ah i heard about some other game that used something similair, the further you get the more music plays[16:25] <LB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyjMPPvaY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=108s[16:25] <Eliyahu> Penguin power had dynamic music >_>[16:26] <Eliyahu> it was cheery and as you clubbed more seals it got violent[16:26] <Eliyahu> of course it was just 2 tracks changing volume

[16:26] <Outcast> if we are talking flash games, mega drill did a quite good job[16:26] <Looki> LittleBigPlanet had awesome music. the instrumentations always changed throughout the level[16:27] <Looki> but there's no really progression of sorts[16:27] <Outcast> i am planning something similair to my current game[16:27] <Outcast> i really need to learn to make music[16:28] <Looki> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_SHhQ4cp1s&feature=relmfu good stuff[16:28] <Outcast> thats the only piece missing[16:28] <LB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyjMPPvaY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=270s[16:28] <Looki> (it gets really good after like 1:30 mins or so)[16:28] <Outcast> i hate that they removed those muslim lyrics in little big planet or whatever it was[16:28] <Outcast> something about the koran i think[16:28] <Looki> oh? I don't know about that[16:29] <Outcast> those disgusting muslims, why do people keep bowing to those barbaric creeps[16:29] <Looki> jeez calm down[16:29] <Outcast> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3227971/Sony-Playstation-game-Little-Big-Planet-delayed-after-anti-Muslim-claims.html[16:29] <Outcast> its really uppsetting [16:30] <Outcast> just give them the finger, thats they only way they can stop thinking they are above everyone else[16:31] <Mathias> Outcast, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x34icYC8zA0[16:31] <Outcast> every time someone bends to their will its a failure [16:31] <Eliyahu> lolwut[16:31] <Outcast> are you kidding me mathias? a little respect?[16:31] <Eliyahu> mathias, unavailable in the US, but its erasure, so i must find this[16:31] <Danny> lol[16:31] <Eliyahu> ah got it[16:31] <Mathias> Eliyahu, Erasure - A Little Respect[16:32] <Eliyahu> yea i can see the title[16:32] <Eliyahu> i found a different video[16:32] <Looki> ALWAYS, I WANNA BE WITH YOU[16:32] <Eliyahu> MAKE BELIEVE WITH YOU[16:32] <Outcast> Thats just what we have to stop doing, respect them[16:32] <Eliyahu> what...[16:32] <Eliyahu> muslims haven't done anything to us.[16:32] <Eliyahu> why stop respecting them?[16:33] <Outcast> because these things keep happening[16:33] <Eliyahu> no they don't.[16:33] <Outcast> are you kidding me?[16:33] <Eliyahu> Do you know how much hate muslims get in the western world?[16:33] <Outcast> a lot i guess[16:33] <Danny> that's probably because they want to live in a western world but not partake in western culture and/or ways[16:34] <LB> my religious beliefs are that clearly there has been plenty of time for one relgion to prove right and none have so why should I care about any of them?[16:34] <Eliyahu> No, they are targeted by dumb white people.[16:34] <Eliyahu> repeatedly.[16:34] <Outcast> its like with those cartoon and the newspapers who dont dare to publish it because they fear for their life[16:34] mojofltr has entered the room
[16:34] <Eliyahu> hello[16:34] <LB> Hello, mojofltr![16:34] <mojofltr> hi[16:34] <Looki> yoyoyo[16:34] <mojofltr> i just watched the first full episode of totally biased[16:34] <Danny> Eliyahu that is false. There is a huge hatred in the UK because they refuse to blend in with our culture. They distance themselves and look down on white people[16:34] <Eliyahu>

[16:34] <mojofltr> 2nd one is almost finished downloading[16:34] <Danny> that is the problem over here... I personally don't care, I'm on the wall with it all[16:35] <LB> https://github.com/LB-Stuff/StructuredData-Object/blob/master/Icon.png#mojofltr I'm using this temp icon until you've finished yours[16:35] <Eliyahu> I doubt it's just them distancing themselves. You know that part of the problem is that the whites don't want the muslims to assimilate[16:35] <Eliyahu> It's hard to want to join a culture when the culture doesn't want you.[16:35] <Outcast> im just saying muslims should be as little respected as anyone else. Its not right for media to have so much respect they remove things or dont dare publish sutff[16:35] <Outcast> stuff[16:35] <mojofltr> i'm making an icon?[16:35] <LB> eliyahu do you remember stores getting in trouble for calling Christmas Trees "Family Trees" so that they "didn't offend non-Christians"?[16:36] <Eliyahu> no[16:36] <LB> that happened[16:36] <Eliyahu> was that in texas?[16:36] <LB> and guess what[16:36] <LB> it was highly offensive to all religions[16:36] <Danny> It has already been brought up in parliment and the national papers that the Muslim's can quite easy use the race card[16:36] <LB> ?[16:36] <Danny> at any time for any point[16:36] <LB> mojofltr lol yes I asked if you would and you said sure and then I left[16:36] <Outcast> christians dont cut off heads when they get offended[16:36] <LB> a few nights ago[16:36] <mojofltr> ?[16:36] <LB> well nvm[16:36] <mojofltr> maybe you were talking to ethan?[16:36] <Eliyahu> Outcast, you're living in a world dominated by Christians.[16:37] <LB> you don;t have to if you don't want toi[16:37] <mojofltr> you always get us mixed up[16:37] <LB> *to[16:37] <Eliyahu> Try being the minority that no one understands[16:37] <LB> no ethan doesn't make icons[16:37] <Looki> oh mojofltr would love to make an icon, LB[16:37] <mojofltr> i don't remember that at all... and i haven't had a drink in years[16:37] <LB> I wouldn't ask him[16:37] <mojofltr> lol[16:37] <Outcast> I feel like minority in this world[16:37] <Eliyahu> because of your username?[16:37] <mojofltr> i remember you showing me the structured data thing, but i had no idea what it was...[16:37] <LB> he filters the mojo[16:37] <Outcast> i dont think anyone should respect someone who kill or make threats to kill if you offend them[16:37] <Mathias> Looki, my first test is complete[16:38] <Looki> lol Eliyahu[16:38] <mojofltr> i thought i asked if it worked in knp or something[16:38] <Mathias> I think I'm doing something stupid though[16:38] <Looki> ace[16:38] <LB> mojofltr yeah[16:38] <LB> I told you what it did[16:38] <Mathias> http://bpaste.net/show/bRwt9E5jplMmCHbTyBli/[16:38] <LB> asked if you would make an icon[16:38] <LB> you said sure[16:38] Outcast has left the room
[16:38] <LB> I waited a while[16:38] <LB> then went to bed[16:38] <mojofltr> hm[16:38] <mojofltr> that's crazy[16:38] <mojofltr> lol[16:38] <LB> lol[16:38] Outcast has entered the room
[16:38] <mojofltr> okay, what kind of icon do you want?[16:38] <LB> wb castaway[16:39] <Outcast> thx[16:39] <LB> make my current icon look snazzy[16:39] mojofltr: I feel the urge to pay you for the cumulative cost of the icons you've made for me in the past
[16:40] <Looki> what's up with those gotos Mathias [16:40] <Looki> just break the loop?[16:40] <Mathias> Looki, it's the best way to do it[16:40] <LB> o_o[16:40] <Looki> :O[16:40] <LB> break;[16:41] <LB> seems much better[16:41] <Mathias> ah, for the loop?[16:41] <Looki> well yes[16:41] <Looki> that's all you use the gotos for[16:41] <Mathias> I mean event 3 and event 1[16:42] <Mathias> the other gotos are necessary[16:42] <LB> O_O[16:42] <mojofltr> LB, you're on [MODERATED][16:42] <mojofltr> lol[16:42] <mojofltr> i just looked at the chat log and you didn't ask me to make an icon[16:42] <LB> you don't even goto them, Mathias[16:42] <Looki> oh right[16:42] <LB> mojofltr how long have you been in CC!?[16:42] <LB> I asked days ago[16:42] <Looki> personally I think it's prettier to have a do while(0) and break[16:42] <mojofltr> i looked at the log from when you told me about structured data[16:43] forehead has left the room
[16:43] <LB> I could've sworn[16:43] Outcast has left the room
[16:43] mojofltr: naw
[16:43] <Mathias> Looki, sometimes I have to break out from a nested loop[16:43] Outcast has entered the room
[16:43] <mojofltr> it's okay, man... i just thought i was out of my mind... but nope.  you are[16:43] <mojofltr>

[16:43] <Mathias> it's the only sane way to do this without using exceptions[16:43] <Mathias> and fastest way[16:44] <Looki> will there ver be code AFTER the goto label?[16:44] <LB> mathias there aren't any there though[16:44] <Looki> *ever[16:44] <Mathias> Looki, sure[16:44] <Looki> if not, why not just return?[16:44] <Looki> oh[16:44] <Looki> okay[16:44] <Looki> never mind then

[16:44] <LB> is this supposed to be C++OOMMF2.5?[16:44] <Mathias> it's MMF2 -> C++[16:44] <LB> oh the converter![16:44] <Outcast> i miss hitchens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7aS7m3odqI[16:44] <LB> that makes more sense[16:44] <Looki> I'm still not a 100% sure how the whole thing works though[16:44] <Mathias> after the performance thread, I thought about native code generation[16:45] <LB> Looki the gotos are just automagically placed[16:45] <Looki> I know LB[16:45] <LB> for me that makes them less evil[16:45] <LB> 10% less evil[16:45] <LB> which brings them below my limit[16:46] <Mathias> gotos are stupid for sane code[16:46] <LB> so I'm ok with mathias' code

[16:46] <Looki> all I meant was, what exactly is "loop_create_objects" etc.[16:46] <mojofltr> oh[16:46] <Mathias> I can show you the MFA[16:46] <Looki> that'd be cool[16:46] <mojofltr> you said something about eating utensils for an icon... i had no idea what you were talking about[16:46] <mojofltr> lol[16:46] <mojofltr> so you sorta asked[16:46] <Mathias> http://mp2.dk/PerfTest.mfa[16:47] <Looki> ohh[16:47] <Looki> so it's a fast loop called create_objects

[16:47] <LB> mojofltr yeah I was suggesting that you needed your e-tools to make an icon[16:47] <Looki> okay, I get it now[16:47] <mojofltr> xD[16:47] <mojofltr> i'm lame[16:47] <mojofltr> okay[16:48] <Looki> Mathias, so if I have two "start of frame" events at different positions, does it just place them in order in "on_start"?[16:48] <Mathias> Looki, yeah[16:48] <Looki> okay[16:48] Outcast has left the room
[16:48] Outcast has entered the room
[16:48] <LB> Mathias, just wondering why you chose pointer-to-GameManager and not reference-to-GameManager?[16:49] <Looki> does it inline expressions?[16:49] <Mathias> LB, I don't like references[16:49] <LB>

[16:49] <Mathias> Looki, that's a job for the compiler[16:49] <Mathias> so yeah[16:49] <LB> why not?[16:49] <mojofltr> checking to see if i have microangelo on this pc... might have only been on the one i replaced[16:49] <LB> pointer and reference are interchgangeable there but reference is safer to code with[16:50] <LB> I onyl use poinetrs if the thing being pointed to needs to change[16:50] <LB> or if it needs to be null sometimes[16:51] <LB> lol did you really have to use post-increment in the for loops?[16:51] <LB> I know it doesn't make a difference with optimizations[16:51] <LB> it just bugs me

[16:51] <Looki> jeez LB[16:51] <LB> I'm picky [16:51] <Looki> :P[16:51] <Looki> let mathias code, he knows what he's doing[16:52] <LB> yeah I trust that[16:52] <Mathias> http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cppguide.xml?showone=Reference_Arguments#Reference_Arguments[16:52] <Looki> besides, 99% of all coders post-increment in loops[16:52] <Looki> (I don't!)[16:52] <Mathias> "References can be confusing, as they have value syntax but pointer semantics."[16:52] <LB> I just don't trust myself with that kind of coding behavior[16:52] <LB> too easy to mess up[16:52] <mojofltr> what size do you need, LB?[16:52] <Looki> yeah Mathias, I chose pointers over references for that reason before[16:52] <Looki> 32x32[16:53] <LB> mojofltr any size between 24x24 and 48x48[16:53] <LB> 32x32 prefereable[16:53] <mojofltr> k[16:53] <mojofltr> i don't have microangelo on hand, but i could make you a gif.  i'm looking to see if i have microangelo on a cd here or something[16:54] <Looki> but Mathias[16:54] <Looki> you can't listen to that styleguide:[16:54] <Looki> Use C++ casts like static_cast<>(). Do not use other cast formats like int y = (int)x; or int y = int(x);.[16:54] <Looki> they're maniacs.[16:54] <Mathias> lol[16:54] <LB> looki they're not[16:55] <Looki> LB did you read what I just posted?[16:55] <Looki> they're mental![16:55] <LB> b = (T)a; doesn;t guarantee a proper cast[16:56] <Looki> I don't wanna hear it[16:56] <Looki> I'm never going to static_cast to convert an int to a char[16:57] <Looki> "You're not really going to define a macro, are you? If you do, they're like this: MY_MACRO_THAT_SCARES_SMALL_CHILDREN."[16:57] <Looki> lol[16:57] <LB> In addition, C-style casts not only allow you to do this, but also allow you to safely cast to a private base-class, while the "equivalent" static_cast sequence would give you a compile time error for that.[16:58] <LB> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28002/regular-cast-vs-static-cast-vs-dynamic-cast[16:58] <Eliyahu> hey mojofltr, isnt totally biased awesome?[16:58] <LB> obviously casting between the primitive non-pointer non-reference types is OK looki[16:59] <mojofltr> i like it[16:59] <Looki> I'm not sure what you're trying to say LB[16:59] <mojofltr> it's nice to know that some people aren't completely stupid[16:59] <Eliyahu> lol[16:59] <LB> its casting with pointers and references that get tricky[16:59] <Eliyahu> "This week we're covering the republican national convention, where the jokes write themselves!"[16:59] <Eliyahu>

[16:59] <Looki> oh[16:59] <mojofltr> heh[16:59] <Looki> LB, THAT'S MY POINT[16:59] <mojofltr> i watched the youtube stuff, but i knew i had to see the entire episodes[16:59] <Looki> why would I use that hideous overkill syntax for casting from float to int?[17:00] <Eliyahu> also the stuff on todd akin was good[17:00] <Looki> I don't want that disgusting syntax anywhere near my code if a c-style cast does the job as well[17:00] <Eliyahu> "Hey Todd Akin, if women can't get pregnant from legitimate rape, why are there so many light-skinned black people in Alabama?"[17:00] <LB> class A{}; class B: private A {};
B *b = /*something*/;
A *a = (A *)b; //works, but is wrong!
A *a = static_cast<A *>(b); //compiler error, yay![17:01] <Looki> plus, I'm not really sure what the point of the whole "safety" is.[17:01] <Eliyahu> its like the safety on a gun.[17:01] <Eliyahu> You never use it anyway.[17:01] <Looki> I mean you're coding this, why wouldn't you know what classes are compatible? :p[17:01] <LB> Looki the problem is sometimes you write a library for other people to use[17:01] <LB> then they don't know[17:01] <LB> and they get problems[17:01] <LB> and complain to you[17:01] <LB> and then YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO THEM[17:01] <LB> why they're an idiot[17:01] <Looki> well then they suck[17:01] <LB> yeah[17:02] <Looki> they have the header files and all[17:02] <LB> this makes people suck less[17:02] <LB> don't you hate it when people suck? :p[17:02] <Looki> I guess[17:02] <LB> if I'm doing something bilssfully unaware that it's bad, and you see it and know,[17:02] <LB> wouldn't you want to correct me?[17:03] <LB> just like you were correcting mathias?[17:03] <Looki> I was?[17:03] <LB> well[17:03] <LB> sort of[17:03] <Looki> the break thing?[17:03] <LB> yeah[17:03] <Looki> right[17:03] <Mathias> iirc there was a reason for the goto[17:03] <Mathias> because there could be actions after the loop[17:04] <Mathias> actually[17:04] <LB> saying "you should always use static_cast" is like saying "you shouldn't go above the speed limit"[17:04] <Mathias> wait, it might be wrong[17:04] <LB> you know it's not always that way[17:04] <LB> but it's just easier to say it is[17:04] <Mathias> actually, yeah[17:05] <Mathias> while translating from python to c++, I changed break to use goto (it's necessary for instance iteration to break out of the look completely)[17:05] <Mathias> but I accidently used it for fastloops too[17:06] <Looki> what do you use as runtime base btw?[17:06] <Looki> rendering and stuff[17:06] <Looki> winapi+opengl?[17:06] <Mathias> glfw, opengl, openal[17:06] <Looki> ah[17:07] <Looki> glfw rules[17:07] <Mathias> it's pretty neat yeah[17:07] <Looki> well[17:07] <Looki> yeah[17:07] <Looki> it's neat[17:07] <Looki> but still the best we have[17:07] <Looki> which is sad[17:07] <Mathias> I'm sad it lacks fullscreen toggling[17:07] <Looki> openal~[17:07] <Looki> btw[17:07] <Looki> I had a huge bug in openal[17:07] <Looki> it crashed when closing[17:07] <Mathias> oh?[17:07] <Looki> my extension that is[17:07] <Looki> for like[17:07] <Mathias> ah, right[17:07] <Looki> a year[17:07] <Looki> I stopped working on it[17:07] <Looki> guess what[17:07] <Looki> LB randomly told me how to fix it[17:07] <Mathias> you should use the latest openal-soft version[17:07] <Mathias> it doesn't crash[17:07] <Looki> no[17:07] <Looki> no[17:07] <Looki> get this[17:07] <Mathias> also, you should close the device[17:07] <Mathias> and sources[17:08] <Mathias> etc.[17:08] <Mathias> after use[17:08] <Looki> NO[17:08] <Looki> shut up[17:08] <Mathias> haha[17:08] <Looki> at some point[17:08] <Looki> I added the oeflag[17:08] <Looki> for alterable values[17:08] <Looki> AND OF COURSE[17:08] <Looki> JAMIE REMOVED THE AUTO-RUNDATA FROM RSDK![17:08] <Mathias> :oo[17:08] <Looki> so because of the '//' in front of rVal rv;[17:08] <Looki> I completely stopped working on OpenAL[17:08] <Looki> for a year[17:09] <Looki> because I didn't figure out that the crash was introduced when I added alterable values[17:09] <Looki> ISN'T THAT GREAT?[17:09] <Mathias> super duper[17:09] <Looki> (this is Edif)[17:09] <Eliyahu> why did you add Alterable Values?[17:09] <Looki> because most extensions should have alterable values[17:09] <Eliyahu> true, but most don't[17:09] <Looki> I wanted mine to...[17:10] <Eliyahu> i guess it would be good for yours[17:10] <Eliyahu> since the uer could I have a lot of crap to handle[17:10] <Looki> shut up man.[17:10] <Eliyahu> *user[17:10] <Looki> that wasn't even the question[17:10] <Looki> anyway, it's fixed now[17:10] <Looki> and it rocks[17:10] <Eliyahu> i liked the Lua thing you did with it[17:10] <Looki> that was ages ago ;([17:10] <Eliyahu> do you still have that?[17:11] <LB> [17:08] <Looki> JAMIE REMOVED THE AUTO-RUNDATA FROM RSDK![17:11] <mojofltr> gah!  since when does imageshack require that you register[17:11] <mojofltr> LAME[17:11] <Looki> maybe yeah[17:11] <LB> that was macro-based[17:11] <Looki> I know[17:11] <Eliyahu> mojofltr, since does any respectable person use imageshack?[17:11] <Looki> LB stop trying to make points all the time[17:11] <Eliyahu> *since when[17:11] <LB> looki I like making points

[17:11] <Looki> I know that, it's just that it didn't occur to me that he "downgraded" that part from rSDK[17:11] <mojofltr> http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6910/structureddata.gif <- LB[17:11] <Looki> imageshack sucks so hard

[17:11] <Eliyahu> that is beautiful[17:11] <LB> gif!?[17:12] LB fires mojofltr
[17:12] <mojofltr> lol[17:12] <mojofltr> let me see if i can find microangelo on a disk[17:12] <Eliyahu> pronounce gif! go![17:12] Eliyahu trololololololol
[17:12] <LB> https://github.com/Andos/Edif/commit/3fe945952f553d4bbbeef5d6fc9b267b423211fa#LookiMathias[17:12] <Looki> I saw that LB[17:12] <LB> k[17:12] <LB> just making sure I point it out too many times[17:12] <LB> so you don't forget next extension[17:13] <LB> @mojofltr you should see http://imgur.com/[17:14] <Danny> +1 for Samsung - http://news.sky.com/story/976758/apple-vs-samsung-south-korean-court-rules[17:17] <LB> http://www.microangelo.us/[17:17] <LB> which of the three do you own mojofltr[17:17] <LB> ?[17:18] <Looki> oh he said microangelo[17:18] <LB> lol[17:18] <Looki> I read michelangelo and thought he made a joke how he's not that much of an artist or something[17:18] <LB> haha[17:18] <LB> me too[17:18] <LB> then I copypasted it[17:18] <Looki> why would you need a tool to draw icons?[17:19] <Looki> just use your normal image editor?[17:19] <Outcast> What sounds best? Diving Bear or Diver Bear[17:19] <Looki> Diver Bear[17:19] <LB> mojofltr yeah all I wanted was a png[17:20] <LB> Outcast I like bearsharktopus[17:20] <Outcast> can only choose between those two![17:21] <mojofltr> oh[17:21] <mojofltr> i can make a png[17:21] <mojofltr> i just created an ico[17:21] <mojofltr> but imageshack wouldn't let me upload it[17:21] Danny needs sleep
[17:21] Danny looks at the exit
[17:21] Danny runs
[17:21] Danny has left the room
[17:21] <Outcast> there is 1 vote on Diver Bear from a german then

[17:22] <LB> mojofltr lol please use imgur.com

[17:22] <LB> at least not imageshack[17:22] <Looki> I use imagebanana but it's german![17:22] <LB> lol[17:22] <Looki> you don't really need to be able to read though[17:22] <Looki> imgur is fine though[17:23] <mojofltr> http://i.imgur.com/y4WRG.png[17:23] <LB> I was looking for what stuff in haskell looked like https://github.com/tm1rbrt/haskell/blob/master/tictactoe/tictactoe.hs "import Data.Maybe"[17:23] <LB> o_o[17:24] <Looki> I just met you[17:24] <Looki> and this is crazy[17:24] <Looki> but here's my file path[17:24] <Looki> so import me maybe?[17:24] <LB> LOL[17:24] <Looki> I actually hate these jokes[17:24] <Looki> but come on[17:24] <Looki> "import [...] maybe"[17:25] <LB> @mojofltr it's nice, I'll see about using it[17:25] <mojofltr> i just added transparency[17:25] <mojofltr> will upload[17:26] <mojofltr> because i didn't know this psp did transparency[17:26] <mojofltr> but i do now[17:26] <mojofltr> lol[17:26] <LB> lol[17:26] <LB> does that mean the lines will be alpha transparent too?>[17:26] <LB> I like the icon[17:26] <LB> it seems to show how the ext works pretty well[17:27] <mojofltr> http://imgur.com/Eta8x[17:27] <Outcast> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VuMdLm0ccU[17:27] <Looki> again?[17:28] <Outcast> If i find a funny video i usually watch it 10-20 times.. it used to drive my old roomate insane

[17:29] <Outcast> and this one is really funny!!

[17:29] <LB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czj6m1nhRCE#Outcast[17:29] <LB> warning: turn your volume down[17:29] <Looki> thanks LB[17:29] <Looki> very early warning[17:29] <LB> lol[17:30] <Outcast> thats not so fun :/[17:30] <LB> very early click looki[17:31] <Looki> http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9412/screenshot2012090300303.jpg (disclaimer: I didn't use imageshack, ZScreen did)[17:31] <Looki> nifflas showing his game to some reporter... it was so funny, he just breezed through the entire game[17:31] <Looki> like some kind of japanese speedrunner[17:31] <LB> lol[17:31] <Mathias> lol[17:32] <Mathias> ok, so[17:32] <Mathias> with native code, I get 24 FPS on my perf test[17:32] <Mathias> with MMF, I get 30 FPS[17:32] <LB> lol[17:32] <Looki> epic Mathias[17:32] <Mathias> I'm sure there are ways to optimize it though[17:32] <LB> something's not right[17:32] <Looki> there must be :P[17:32] <Mathias> let me upload the code[17:33] <Looki> yo http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3254/screenshot2012090300320.png[17:33] <Looki> doesn't that look like the guy  fawkes mask to you?[17:33] <Looki> a friend of mine was like "what, you're crazy it looks nothing like it"[17:33] <LB> you're crazy I don't know what "the guy  fawkes mask"[17:33] <LB> is[17:34] <Looki> o_O[17:34] <Looki> ok you're crazy[17:34] <Mathias> -> http://mp2.dk/test2.7z[17:34] <Looki> http://activehistory.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/guy-fawkes-mask2.jpg[17:34] <Looki> this[17:34] <LB> oh[17:34] <LB> the mask anonymous wears?[17:34] <Looki> it's CLEARLY a picture of that.[17:34] <Looki> the moustache etc.[17:34] <Looki> there's even really nice shading of the side of the face[17:35] <LB> Looki I see it looking up right a little and a snake coming out of its mouth[17:35] <Looki> lol[17:35] <Looki> yes[17:35] <Looki> the beard is too long[17:35] <LB> um wtf[17:35] <LB> when I use EDIF's Runtime build config[17:35] <LB> it places the MFX in Data\Runtime\HWA\[17:36] <LB> this explains why I can't build EXEs[17:37] <Looki> ObjectList & get_instances(int object_id)[17:37] <Looki> AHA, Mathais![17:37] <Looki> whoops[17:37] <Outcast> new metal gear looks good.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5IVOs5Pxh8[17:37] <LB> I use stone gears[17:37] <LB> sorry[17:37] <Mathias> Looki, what is it?[17:38] <Looki> well you used references![17:38] <mojofltr> i didn't know imageshack was the devil[17:38] <Mathias> I know

I asked Jamie[17:38] <Outcast> i want those cloth physics in mmf.. [17:38] <Mathias> he said I should at least try it[17:38] <Outcast>

[17:38] <Mathias> I could've used pointers[17:38] <Mathias> whatevs[17:38] <LB> lol looki the Runtime and Runtime HWA build paths are swapped[17:39] liquixcat has entered the room
[17:39] <LB> Hello, liquixcat![17:39] <liquixcat> Hello[17:39] <Looki> lol[17:39] <Looki> hi[17:39] <liquixcat> How is everyone?[17:39] <Looki> well I need SOIL first[17:39] <Looki> let's see[17:39] <Mathias> ah Looki[17:39] <Mathias> I can give you everything if you want[17:39] <LB> Selected Object Info List?[17:40] <Mathias> http://mp2.dk/test22.7z Looki[17:40] <Looki> already built it

[17:40] <Mathias>

[17:41] <Eliyahu> liquixcat![17:41] <Looki> okay, I can run it [17:41] <Eliyahu>

[17:41] <liquixcat> Hey Eli[17:41] <Eliyahu> i had a video for you[17:41] <Eliyahu> i posted it here but i dont think you were here[17:42] <liquixcat> I'll check it out in a second, gotta find headphones[17:42] <Eliyahu> ok[17:42] <Looki> Mathias it doesn't render yet right[17:42] <Mathias> nope[17:42] <Mathias> just events for the moment[17:43] <Mathias> it's what I was most interested in[17:43] <LB> those are the most intensive though right?[17:43] <Looki> what kind of numbers does it output?[17:43] <liquixcat> hahaha[17:43] <Mathias> Looki, that's the FPS[17:43] <Looki> ah, [17:43] <Mathias> LB, yeah[17:43] <Looki> yeah[17:43] <liquixcat> that's funny Eli[17:44] <Mathias> if we can get the events running incredibly fast, we're on the right track[17:44] <Eliyahu> ^_^[17:44] <Looki> I get 0.18 fps in debug mode lolololol[17:44] <LB>

[17:44] <Mathias> yeah; 23.00 FPS in release[17:44] <Looki> true![17:44] <Looki> well it fluctuates[17:44] <Looki> I get 19 sometimes[17:45] <Looki> well that is slow as hell[17:45] <Looki> let's see[17:45] <Mathias> 27~30 FPS in MMF[17:45] <Mathias> look in frame1.h[17:45] <Mathias> that's where the core is[17:45] <Looki> actually I get 20 in mmf[17:46] <Looki> 22[17:46] <Looki> still, wtf[17:46] <Looki> let's see[17:47] <Looki> uhm[17:47] <Outcast> oh its going to be so fun to sleep!

[17:48] <Looki> Mathias, shouldn't you optimize it so that you put multiple actions in a row in a single object loop if that doesn't break anything?[17:48] <Looki> just saying[17:48] <Looki> cause set x and set y are separate[17:48] <Looki> I guess that has to wait, though[17:48] <Mathias> it's how MMF does it[17:48] <Mathias> I'm not going to play tricks just yet[17:48] <Looki> yeah[17:49] Pharanygitis has entered the room
[17:49] <Looki> okay uhm[17:49] <Mathias> but if there's something obviously wrong with the code, let me know[17:49] <Looki> don't you think it would be smarter to store object instances in vectors? [17:50] <Looki> I mean, you always loop through them in every action[17:50] <Looki> so fast iteration should be way more important that fast insertion?[17:50] <Mathias> hnm[17:51] <LB> https://github.com/Andos/Edif/blob/master/Extensions/Template/Template.vcproj#L285 Looki lol https://github.com/Andos/Edif/commit/a76c76a8d83c11a0eef6f8e5a6b685908f94325e#L0R285[17:51] <LB> I'm going to fix that now[17:51] <Looki> Mathias[17:51] <Looki> LMAO[17:51] <Looki> I changed ObjectList to vector[17:51] <Looki> I get 60 fps now[17:51] <Mathias> :ooo[17:51] <Eliyahu> lol[17:51] <LB> haha[17:51] <Mathias> woah[17:52] <LB> never underestimate the power of the C++ continguos list[17:52] <Looki> thanks LB[17:52] <Looki> are you gonna fix that?[17:52] <Mathias> yeah, sure[17:52] <Mathias> I wonder if it can be made faster[17:52] <Looki> no[17:53] <Looki> I meant LB[17:53] <LB> fixing[17:53] <Looki> thansk[17:53] <Looki> Mathias, I guess glfw limits me to 60[17:53] <Looki> I mean it's exactly 60[17:53] <Looki> that's no coincidence[17:53] <Mathias> ah[17:53] <Mathias> vsync?[17:53] <Looki> yeah[17:54] <Mathias> it should be 85 FPS[17:54] <Mathias> hnm[17:54] <Mathias> right[17:54] <Looki> I'll try to turn it off in the nvidia control center thing[17:54] ChrisBurrows has entered the room
[17:55] <Looki> oh great it won't open[17:56] <Outcast> What is "Enable Visual Themes"?[17:56] <Eliyahu> hey CB[17:57] <Looki> Mathias, I just removed the swap buffers line[17:57] <Looki> I get 100 now[17:57] <Looki> considering 85 is the limit, that's good![17:57] <Mathias> lol[17:57] <Mathias> wtf[17:57] <Looki> I'll remove the sleep[17:57] Pharanygitis has left the room
[17:58] <Looki> okay -> http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9875/screenshot2012090300580.png[17:58] <LB> https://github.com/Andos/Edif/pull/12#Looki[17:58] <Looki> 120 is still pretty bad though I think[17:58] <Looki> we need moar[17:58] <LB> Outcast it makes buttons look fancy[17:58] <Looki> or do we?[17:58] <Looki> I haven't even looked at the code lol[17:58] <Looki> oooh[17:58] <Looki> it creates 800 objects each loop ok :P[17:59] <Mathias> nah[17:59] <LB> lol[17:59] <Outcast> What is "Enable Visual Themes"?[17:59] <Looki> wait [17:59] <Looki> no[17:59] <Mathias> start of the frame[17:59] <Looki> it doesn't[17:59] <Looki> okay yeah then[17:59] <Looki> we need moar fps[17:59] <LB> Outcast I just exlained[17:59] <LB> it makes windows controls look fancy[17:59] <Outcast> oh[17:59] <Looki> thanks LB[17:59] <Outcast> that.. sucks?[17:59] <Outcast> should i uncross it?[17:59] <LB> only if you hate how windows controls look[17:59] <Outcast> i dont think they are in my game? :S[17:59] <LB> it shouldn't matter then[17:59] <Outcast> what is windows controls? :S[17:59] <LB> either way will be fine for you[18:00] <Outcast> :p[18:00] <LB> buttons, edit boxes, radio buttons, etc[18:00] <Outcast> ah![18:00] <LB> anything that coms from Windows[18:00] <Outcast> but maybe it takes up performance even if i dont use them :/[18:00] <LB> the stuff applications and dialog boxes use[18:00] <Outcast> if i have it enabled[18:00] <LB> you can try[18:00] <LB> it can't hurt

[18:00] <Outcast> hmmmmm[18:01] <Mathias> Looki, I can only get 75 FPS[18:01] <Looki> oh, Mathias, don't use std::strings? [18:01] <Looki> all your strings are constant[18:01] <Looki> don't use string ffs![18:02] <Looki> let me mess aroundCommand not recognised
[18:02] LB uses std::basic_string<TCHAR>
[18:02] <Mathias> for std::map, I'll have to use std::strings[18:02] <Mathias> right[18:02] <Mathias> lol Looki[18:02] <Mathias> I'll just commit the code now[18:02] <Looki> [01:02] <Mathias> for std::map, I'll have to use std::strings[18:02] <Outcast> time for the little death! Sleep well!

[18:02] Outcast has left the room
[18:02] <Looki> that's nonsense, you can provide a custom compare function[18:02] <LB> for const char *[18:03] <LB> does it really matter with maps?[18:03] <LB> string pooling and all?[18:03] <LB> it'd work fine I think[18:03] <Looki> ehm, what, LB?[18:03] <LB> const char *a = "test"; const char *b = "test";[18:03] <Looki> yes?[18:03] <LB> if string pooling is enabled[18:03] <LB> a == bn[18:04] <Looki> so what?[18:04] <LB> *b[18:04] <LB> so for maps[18:04] <Looki> what if two strings are equal at runtime?[18:04] <Looki> lol[18:04] <LB> you could use std::map<char *, something>[18:04] <Looki> don't take "all your strings are constant" too literally[18:04] <LB> they key is const char *[18:04] <LB> oooh[18:05] <LB> yeah custom comparator[18:05] ProdigyX has entered the room
[18:06] <ProdigyX> aloha mis amigos[18:06] <LB> three languages per sentence eh?[18:06] <ProdigyX> two[18:06] <ProdigyX> well[18:06] <ProdigyX> no[18:06] <ProdigyX> one[18:06] <ProdigyX> well[18:06] <ProdigyX> two[18:06] <ProdigyX> i suppose[18:06] <ProdigyX> three wha[18:07] <ProdigyX> yo no se how you got est[18:07] <LB> aloha -> hawaian, mis -> italian(?), amigos -> spanish[18:07] <ProdigyX> mis is spanish[18:07] <LB> k[18:07] <ProdigyX> teehee[18:07] <LB> https://github.com/Andos/Edif/pull/12 jeez james closed it quick![18:08] <LB> 10 minute reponse[18:08] <LB> *response[18:08] <ProdigyX> lol[18:09] <Eliyahu> shalom mi amigo![18:10] <ProdigyX> konichiwa my friend[18:10] <ProdigyX> **konichiha[18:10] <Eliyahu> oh right english[18:10] <Eliyahu> i couldn't think of a 3rd language I know[18:10] <Eliyahu> >_>[18:10] <ProdigyX> pwnd[18:10] <ProdigyX> u coulda done c++[18:10] <ProdigyX> -_-[18:10] <ProdigyX> or flash[18:10] <ProdigyX> or ur mother[18:10] <ProdigyX> ;_;[18:10] <Eliyahu> shalom mi friend[18:11] <Eliyahu> que in haolam?[18:11] <ProdigyX> (t)(-_-t)[18:11] <ProdigyX> woh[18:11] <ProdigyX> 3rd language?[18:11] <ProdigyX> hebrew[18:11] <ProdigyX> -_-[18:11] <ProdigyX> shame [18:11] <ProdigyX> on[18:11] <ProdigyX> u[18:11] <Eliyahu> yea hebrew[18:11] <Eliyahu> haolam = the world[18:12] <ProdigyX> i mean[18:12] <LB> Looki, there are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data[18:12] <LB> which kind are you?[18:12] <ProdigyX> u said u didnt know a 36rd lange[18:12] <ProdigyX> 3rd[18:12] <Eliyahu> yea i didnt remember english[18:12] <ProdigyX> and u didnt think of hewbroew nor english[18:12] <ProdigyX> s**hebrew[18:12] <Looki> first one >_>[18:12] <Eliyahu> shalom is hebrew....[18:12] <LB>

[18:12] <ProdigyX> OHHHHHHHh[18:12] <Eliyahu> i did hebrew and spanish[18:12] <ProdigyX> damn[18:12] <Eliyahu> lol[18:12] Nifflas has entered the room
[18:12] <ProdigyX> i thought that was something else[18:12] <Eliyahu> hello![18:13] <ProdigyX> i knew what i meant[18:13] <LB> Hello, Nifflas![18:13] <Nifflas> hellooo[18:13] <ProdigyX> lol[18:13] <Eliyahu> hellllooooooooooo[18:13] <Eliyahu> la la la[18:13] <ProdigyX> Y IS NO ONE EVER HERE?[18:13] <ProdigyX> that can help me[18:13] <ProdigyX> ;_;[18:13] <LB> Looki was talking about how you speedran your game for that reporter like a japanese speed tunner[18:13] <Eliyahu> you need help?[18:13] <LB> *runner[18:13] <Looki> lol[18:13] <ProdigyX> as a matter a fact[18:13] <ProdigyX> i need halp[18:13] <ProdigyX> butt[18:13] <ProdigyX> its a james only[18:13] <Eliyahu> what is a japanese speed runner?[18:13] <LB>

[18:13] <Looki> Nifflas, I posted a pic of you showing your game to one of the interviewers and remarked how fast you were playing it[18:13] <ProdigyX> not ur mother[18:13] <ProdigyX> i can tell u that much[18:13] <Eliyahu> why didnt you just say Kenyan?[18:14] <ProdigyX> cuz they always win races[18:14] <ProdigyX> olmpyics[18:14] <ProdigyX> special olympics[18:14] <ProdigyX> everything[18:14] <ProdigyX> known fact[18:15] <LB> https://gist.github.com/3605527#Nifflas[18:15] <Nifflas> Haha, yeah, and it still takes me four hours to get 100% completition at the game[18:15] <ProdigyX> isnt x86 32 bit?[18:15] <LB> yes[18:15] <Looki> it is[18:15] <ProdigyX> beau.[18:16] <ProdigyX> tiful[18:16] <LB> and x64 (lower) is 64-bit (higher)[18:16] <Mathias> ok Looki, https://github.com/matpow2/anaconda/commit/f2475054ee35091b6edca4a0d01b53d66d86f99a[18:16] <Looki> Mathias[18:16] <Looki> if (!(*item)->values->get(1) == 0) [18:16] <Looki> screwed up syntax much?[18:16] <ProdigyX> kik'[18:16] <ProdigyX> lol[18:17] <Looki> you're comparing the boolean opposite of (*item)->values->get(1) to 0?[18:17] <Mathias> yeah, Looki[18:17] <Looki> huh?[18:17] <Looki> but that's not what you want[18:17] <Mathias> oh[18:17] <Mathias> oops[18:17] <Mathias> lol[18:17] <Mathias> I read your sentence wrong[18:17] <Mathias> ok, I see what's up[18:17] <Looki> wrap the whole thing in () after ![18:18] <Mathias> in any case, check out the anaconda repository and halp me

[18:18] <Mathias> bitte[18:18] <Looki> also, the "else" afterwards is redundant [18:18] <Mathias> sehr viel[18:18] <Looki> oh right, k[18:20] Pharanygitis has entered the room
[18:20] Pharanygitis has left the room
[18:20] Pharanygitis has entered the room
[18:21] Pharanygitis has left the room
[18:21] <Looki> Mathias I get ~145 fps now[18:21] <Looki> after fixing the ! thing[18:21] <Mathias> >_>[18:21] <Mathias> commit your changes, lol[18:21] <Looki> lol yeah wait[18:21] <Looki> it's just a couple of characters anyway[18:21] <Mathias> chowdren.py[18:21] <Looki> plus I need to fix them in the generator[18:21] Pharanygitis has entered the room
[18:21] <Mathias> it's a bit of a mess right now[18:22] <Mathias> but you should be able to find it[18:23] Pharanygitis: Hey LB, have you a idea for my problem? I need the current unix timestamp in c++ as a string. I don't know how can I get this
[18:27] <Looki> mathias, I don't have anything to commit as of now except what I told you about[18:27] <Mathias> what changes?[18:28] <Looki> the ! thing?[18:28] <Mathias> have you build mmfparser/anaconda yet? :p[18:28] <Looki> vector  instead of vector[18:28] <Looki> no[18:28] <Looki> ugh[18:28] <ProdigyX> lol[18:30] <Looki> Mathias, I'll do this tomorrow[18:30] <Looki> I'll try to optimize more based on the generated code[18:38] <Mathias> hnm[18:38] <Mathias> I get about 80 FPS[18:41] <Mathias> so ObjectList -> std::vector and ! fix[18:44] <Looki> für Run_Only muss man aber noch mal nen separaten ausgabepfad einstellen[18:48] <Mathias> auch, wie so?[18:48] <Mathias> *ach[18:48] <Looki> oh[18:48] <Looki> haha[18:49] <Looki> I didn't realize that wasn't a PM[18:49] <Looki> jeez[18:49] <Mathias> maybe it was[18:49] <Mathias> I use the bridge :p[18:49] <liquixcat> It wasn't[18:49] <Looki> the bridge shows PMs? lol[18:49] <Looki> aren't PMs implemented as peer messages?[18:50] <Mathias> I don't remember if I ever got to implement it[18:57] Pharanygitis has left the room
[19:13] <Nifflas> hello again

[19:17] <Alonso> Hello.[19:34] <Nifflas> sooo, what's going on?[19:34] <Mathias> not much[19:35] <Mathias> I worked a bit on my MMF -> C++ converter[19:35] <Nifflas> ah[19:35] <Nifflas> how's that going?[19:35] <ChrisBurrows> Wow. How's it work?[19:35] <Mathias> it's about 3x faster on a benchmark :p[19:35] <Nifflas> Awesome[19:36] <Mathias> but really, I just made it as a PoC[19:36] <ChrisBurrows> It converts MMF events to c++ code?[19:36] <Mathias> ChrisBurrows, yeah[19:36] <Mathias> after Knytt Underground, I'll probably make it more than a PoC[19:36] <ChrisBurrows> What about rendering sprites, layers, effects, etc?[19:36] <Nifflas> Cool

[19:37] <Nifflas> I just imagine... well, if MMF3 would export that way instead and the event system would allow much more efficient code (sub-events, better iterations etc.) - it could be soooo fast[19:38] <Nifflas> I estimate I could cut my CPU usage by 3/4 if I could iterate in a better way and wrap stuff into sub-events to not have to repeat conditions. That plus the additional extra speed of converting it to c++ code[19:38] <Nifflas> it'd be awesome[19:38] <ChrisBurrows> I can't imagine re-writing MMF3 from scratch with that in mind would be that difficult.[19:38] Ethan has entered the room
[19:38] <Ethan> Hey[19:38] <Ethan> Hello,LB![19:38] <Nifflas> Hello

[19:38] <ChrisBurrows>

[19:39] <Mathias> Nifflas, subevents would be a pretty big change though[19:39] ProdigyX has left the room
[19:39] <Mathias> it's a good idea though[19:40] <Nifflas> yeah, well, MMF3 will need it[19:40] <Nifflas> 'cause well, to compete with Construct for example[19:40] <Mathias> true[19:40] <Mathias> Scirra made a huge mistake though[19:41] <Mathias> with the HTML5 move[19:41] <Mathias> IMHO at least[19:41] <Nifflas> Ah, well, they wrap it into awesomeium... so I guess it'll cut CPU usage by a lot with that extra layer[19:42] <Nifflas> I actually think it can still be faster than MMF2 simply due to the much more efficient events you can make with it... but it also leaves plenty of headroom for MMF3 to be a whole lot better and faster[19:42] <Nifflas> erm, not cut cpu usage, meant cost cpu usage[19:42] <Nifflas> (2 lines above)[19:42] <Mathias> right[19:43] <Mathias> yeah, I guess it could be faster with JS and clever design[19:44] <liquixcat> I agre Mathias[19:44] <liquixcat> I don't know why they went to HTML5[19:44] <Mathias> I still have a firmer belief in the desktop[19:44] <liquixcat> I think they had a better shot with the desktop[19:44] <Alonso> I thought it was because he could be sued?[19:44] <Mathias> all the good games I've played have been on the desktop[19:44] <Nifflas> huh? why would he be sued?[19:45] <Alonso> I heard CT would sue him or something, so he made the change to html5. [19:45] <Alonso> My sources are unreliable, though. I don't remember them

[19:45] <Nifflas> I don't understand why CT would do that tho

[19:45] <Mathias> ah, no[19:45] <Mathias> that was a long time ago[19:45] <Mathias> before they went open-source with Construct 1[19:45] <Alonso> Ah.[19:46] <Alonso> Well, then it does seem a bit limiting.[19:46] <Mathias> basically Tigerworks had written some extensions for CT, but decided to take the extensions and make his own middleware[19:46] <Mathias> together with Herb[19:46] <Mathias> I think[19:46] <Alonso> Yeah.[19:46] <Alonso> I didn't know Herb was involved, though.[19:46] <Nifflas> ah, so they were paid and just abandoned their work or something?[19:46] <Mathias> I don't know if they were paid[19:47] <Alonso> Where is Ashley from?[19:47] <Alonso> The US?[19:47] <Mathias> dunno[19:47] <Looki> why would someone name their boy ashley?[19:47] <Alonso> Scirra has come up twice today

[19:47] <Looki> it's just so... mindblowing.[19:47] <liquixcat> Ashley is a stupid boys name[19:47] <liquixcat> It's very obviously a girls name[19:47] <Alonso> María should be a girl's name, too.[19:48] <Alonso> But men are named María.[19:48] <Alonso> Or Ariel

[19:48] <Looki> they are?[19:48] <liquixcat> I've never seen a guy named Maria...[19:48] <Looki> hmm, well there's a german comedian that has Maria as his second name I think.[19:48] <ChrisBurrows> I went to school with a really fat kid (boy) called Ashely. He was horrible! I wonder what he's up to these days...[19:48] <Alonso> The Brandenbauer or whatever guy?[19:48] <liquixcat> since 'a' is the feminine form in Italian you'd think that it'd be a definite no-no[19:48] <Looki> Alonso, no[19:48] <Nifflas> http://www.behindthename.com/name/maria <-- listed as feminine + masculine[19:48] <liquixcat> Mario is Maria in Masculine[19:48] <liquixcat> o is boy[19:48] <Looki> Nifflas, no one cares about that, though[19:48] <liquixcat> a is girl[19:49] <Looki> it's about what people think :P[19:49] <Looki> and people obviously don't think Ashley is a male name[19:49] <Nifflas> Oh, ofc I see that aspect too[19:49] <Alonso> What about Rainer Maria rilke?[19:49] <Nifflas> just pointing out

[19:49] <Looki> ah[19:49] <Looki> René Karl Wilhelm Johann Josef Maria Rilke[19:49] <Alonso> Lovely.[19:50] <Alonso> That's like 6 children in 1.[19:50] <Nifflas> Johann Gambolputty-de-von-Ausfern-schplenden....[19:50] <ChrisBurrows> Was Construct 1 any good?[19:50] <Alonso> Doesn't Swedish royalty have like 4 names, Nifflas?[19:50] <Nifflas> no idea, I don't keep track[19:50] <Looki> our old minister of defence has a great name [19:51] <ChrisBurrows> http://static2.scirra.net/images/game-editor-interface.png looks pretty simliar to MMF...[19:51] <Alonso> Carl Gustav Adolf Henrik.[19:51] <Nifflas> C1 was a mess on the inside, they didn't have a chance to patch the mess into a stable piece of software[19:51] <Nifflas> I saw it coming even before they announced it[19:51] <Looki> Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg [19:51] <ChrisBurrows> Too eager to get it out there I guess.[19:51] <Looki> HA! Maria is in there too![19:51] <Looki> the "Freiherr von und zu " part is more or less a title[19:51] <Nifflas> well, I think they weren't good enough knowing how to make software like that[19:52] <Alonso> Well, I've seen a couple of nice games done with construct.[19:52] <ChrisBurrows> So why did CT drop the case when they released the open source version?[19:52] <Nifflas> There are still things that makes me sceptical about their skill with C2.[19:52] <Alonso> One by Zerotau and another one that was a metroid clone.[19:52] <Alonso> ChrisBurrows, probably because it's harder to win against open source.[19:53] <ChrisBurrows> Hmm yes.[19:53] <Alonso> Or maybe the case had to be re-done.[19:53] <Nifflas> Like, in a C2 build they suddenly changed object visibility so that if a visible object is in an invisible layer, it returns "false" on the "is visible" check.[19:53] <ChrisBurrows> I've never used either. How does C2 differ from C1? and MMF2 of that matter..[19:53] <Alonso> I've used it little, but I  remember it being very similar to MMF in many ways.[19:53] <Nifflas> which is insane imo, because if you use a minimap system and hide a layer to hide the minimap, the visibility conditions will become useless.[19:53] <Alonso> You could probably jump into using it rather easily if you wanted to.[19:53] <ChrisBurrows> Haha, that is horrible! (about the visibility)[19:54] <Nifflas> Well, MMF2 does that too actually, but I think if they designed it today they'd know better[19:54] <ChrisBurrows> I'll stick to MMF. I really respected Tigerworks when I first started using Knp back in the day and I can't help but think of him as a traitor.[19:55] <ChrisBurrows> He violated the bro code.[19:55] <Nifflas> Haha[19:55] <Alonso> Lol. Whatever, to be honest.[19:55] <Mathias> to be honest, MMF is really lagging behind[19:55] <ChrisBurrows> And I won't give him or his products nuttin[19:55] <Alonso> But then again, I wasn't the one whose stuff was ripped.[19:55] <Mathias> I can see why they'd want to try and do something better[19:55] <Nifflas> agreed[19:55] <Nifflas> I'm personally not loyal at all. Right now I use MMF2 because it's what I know and the Anaconda runtime is around for me to export to win/mac/linux.[19:55] <ChrisBurrows> We all know what needs to be improved in MMF3, but it is not our place to do it.[19:56] <Nifflas> without Anaconda I'd already have left, but I really want MMF3 to become great[19:56] <ChrisBurrows> I don't doubt that.[19:56] <Alonso> I'm not doing game-making as a career, so i don't mind much the grass on other places.[19:57] <Nifflas> I think it could be our place to do it. Like, I'd happily help out with evented components during development.[19:57] <ChrisBurrows> I will happily help too, that's not what I mean.[19:57] <Mathias> or we could do another MMF clone

[19:57] <ChrisBurrows> It is "not our place" to take everything with no needs improving in MMF2 and make our own clone[19:57] <ChrisBurrows> haha yeah[19:58] <ChrisBurrows> *know[19:58] <Mathias> I've been considering it[19:58] <ChrisBurrows> I want in[19:58] <Nifflas> I dunno, I can see how it makes sense. Most music sequencers are similar because it's a good interface[19:58] <liquixcat> You basically already did Mathias[19:58] <ChrisBurrows> haha[19:58] <Nifflas> and each new one is there because they feel the old ones are lacking something[19:58] <Nifflas> same with every programming language[19:58] <Mathias> liquixcat, true[19:58] <Nifflas> I don't see doing that as something that makes you a traitor[19:59] <Nifflas> it's just good honest competition[19:59] <Nifflas> well, unless you are paid to do a job ofc that you then use for something else[19:59] <Nifflas> I dunno if that's what they did with C1, don't know what the story is there[19:59] <Mathias> I think with C1 it was a bit more aggresive[19:59] <Mathias> from Scirra's part at least[19:59] <ChrisBurrows> Very true. I just look at screenshots for C1/C2 and I read about it and I think why not join Clickteam and work with them to make something amazing. He was definitely talented enough, he came from a click background and I'm sure they would have taken him aboard.[20:00] <liquixcat> I don't really use MMF anymore, but, tbh, it's pretty powerful[20:00] <Alonso> Well, it's like being a musician, taking someone else's work and reproducing it almost to the note. I can see why people were bothered.[20:00] <liquixcat> Sure it has some shortcomings, but I think it's the trade off that needed to be made[20:00] <Mathias> ChrisBurrows, CT is fairly closed[20:00] <liquixcat> I honestly don't care one way or the other[20:00] <Nifflas> I didn't feel that back then the CT staff realized what kind of improvements that needed to be made.[20:00] <liquixcat> Just what I see[20:00] <Mathias> and CT are against major changes[20:01] <Mathias> well, ok[20:01] <Mathias> by CT, I mean Francois[20:01] <Mathias>

[20:01] <Alonso> Hehe.[20:01] <ChrisBurrows> He loves his baby.[20:01] <Looki> lol[20:01] <Nifflas> either way, the attitude has changed and I love they got more people on the team[20:01] <Nifflas> so now is the time to do something great or fall behind... well, that's my take on it[20:01] <liquixcat> MMF is just a stepping stone imho. Either you advanced passed it and learn a real language/framework. Or you stick with it/quit[20:01] <Mathias> yeah, Jamie / Andos are great[20:02] <liquixcat> but you know it's limitations.... and staying with it is more an opinion on your own ability to advance[20:02] <liquixcat> pushing MMF to be something its not is not what I consider a good idea[20:02] <ChrisBurrows> I hear ya liquix.[20:02] <Nifflas> well, I'm aware I should have moved, but I haven't been able to afford it until now.[20:02] <ChrisBurrows> Timewise?[20:02] <Nifflas> time is money, and I can only live off the buffer of my last sold game.[20:03] <Nifflas> This is the first time in two years I can take a vacation[20:03] <Nifflas> and where I can afford to learn new stuff without having to be extremely productive[20:03] <liquixcat> You want the future of MMF, go to Unity, that's it...[20:03] <liquixcat> It's harder... because it has to be[20:03] <Nifflas> I'm considering everything at this point.[20:03] <liquixcat> It's still pretty darn easy though[20:03] <Mathias> Unity is stupid for 2D games IMHO[20:04] <Nifflas> I'm going to try lots of different tools and play around for a while.[20:04] <liquixcat> Love2D (LUA) is pretty cool an doesn't afraid of anything[20:05] <Looki> Löve is cool indeed, we met a guy who made cool games with it right Nifflas

[20:05] <Nifflas> Haha, yeah

[20:05] <Mathias> Lua though

[20:05] <Nifflas> Yeah, that's the downside[20:05] <Nifflas> but I can probably manage[20:06] <Nifflas> either way, maybe I'll do what Petri did and create a game a week[20:06] <Looki> well, Lua is just so easy to embed and to learn

[20:06] <Looki> I'm not a big fan either[20:06] <Looki> but it's the truth[20:06] RickyRombo has entered the room
[20:06] <Mathias> I'm biased[20:06] RickyRombo pokes Alonso
[20:06] <Mathias> but Python[20:06] <Mathias> or even JS for that matter[20:06] <Nifflas> so I'll just try lots of different development environments and libraries[20:06] <Alonso> Hey, RickyRombo.[20:06] <liquixcat> Love in Python would be ocol[20:06] <RickyRombo> Alonso, is that game public?[20:06] <Nifflas> and create lotsa small silly games[20:06] <Mathias> the problem with Python is packaging[20:06] <Nifflas> and see which tool I like best[20:06] <RickyRombo> I'd like to show it to my Spanish class[20:06] <Alonso> Well, it's going to be in a few weeks.[20:06] <Alonso> Sure x)[20:07] <RickyRombo> Is it complete?[20:07] <Alonso> Is it worth showing it to them?[20:07] <RickyRombo> (it seems it)[20:07] <Alonso> Yeah, it is.[20:07] <liquixcat> Why Mathias?[20:07] <Mathias> Lua is very modular[20:07] <Nifflas> either way, normally game logic can be written in any language, because it's just not the heavy part[20:07] <Alonso> I'll make some changes to the last level on monday, though. But the link will be the same.[20:07] <Mathias> which is a strong point to it[20:08] <Alonso> Tell me what they think of it

[20:08] <Looki> what game, Alonso/RickyRombo?[20:08] <Nifflas> so it'll be more a matter of just finding something I like[20:08] <Mathias> while Python is "everything included", but that makes packaging a bit more complex[20:08] <Alonso> A silly game I did, Looki.[20:08] <Looki> I'm silly, so show it to me[20:08] <ChrisBurrows> Does anybody here write games in C++?[20:08] <RickyRombo> It's rather awesome[20:08] <Mathias> ChrisBurrows, me partly :p[20:08] <Mathias> C++ and Python[20:08] <Mathias> mostly[20:08] <Looki> what Mathias said

[20:08] <Alonso> You shall be frustrated, Looki.[20:09] <Alonso> But here goes.[20:09] <ChrisBurrows> I see.[20:09] <Nifflas> "LÖVE is totally free, and can be used in anything from friendly open-source hobby projects, to evil, closed-source commercial ones. " <-- Haha, I like the description[20:09] <liquixcat> It's pretty cool, but I haven't used it[20:09] <liquixcat> just looked at some source code[20:09] <RickyRombo> it wasn't *THAT* frustrating[20:09] <liquixcat> it runs fast[20:09] <RickyRombo> I quite enjoyed it[20:09] <Looki> that preloader pig looks awesome[20:09] <RickyRombo> I'll be sure to give you feedback Alonso

[20:10] <Alonso> Thanks

[20:10] <RickyRombo> I really enjoyed the game[20:10] <Alonso> I'm glad x)[20:10] <Looki> what in the hell[20:10] <liquixcat> You could create a 2D graphics framework to rival pygame, Mathias[20:10] <Mathias> liquixcat, I have been considering it[20:10] <Looki> Alonso those graphics are amazing

[20:10] <Mathias> pygame is pretty [MODERATED][20:10] <Mathias> imho[20:10] <Looki> I'm sad because I wish I could make such graphics[20:10] <liquixcat> I agree[20:10] <Alonso> It's not hard o.o[20:11] <Alonso> They're really simple.[20:11] <Looki> for you, maybe.[20:11] <liquixcat> That can be your "MMF"[20:11] <Looki> can't you post it publicly?[20:11] <Alonso> I could stream one day and give you some tips if you want.[20:11] <Looki> that would be interesting

[20:11] <Nifflas> ooh Alonso, where can I see?[20:11] <liquixcat> call it PyKlik :O xD[20:12] <Mathias> anaconda, chowdren, flamingo[20:12] <Mathias> I dunno[20:12] <Alonso> See what, Niff?[20:12] <Looki> Bien hecho![20:12] <Nifflas> "Looki: Alonso those graphics are amazing :("[20:12] <Alonso> Oh.[20:12] <Nifflas> if you got new screenshots or something[20:12] <liquixcat> Pfft Mexan graphics[20:12] <Looki> seriously this is my favorite kind of art style in games[20:12] <Looki> artsy, but also kind of retro-ish [20:12] <Looki> it looks great[20:13] <Alonso> Thanks (:>[20:13] <liquixcat> lemme see it, I need to judge[20:13] <Looki> well, okay, my favorite style is hand drawn HD graphics, but that's just asking for too much, especially in indie games.[20:13] <Alonso> Yeah :/[20:13] <liquixcat> Like, Bastion?[20:13] <Looki> mmm.[20:13] <Nifflas> ooh, nice stuff[20:13] <Alonso> I have a thing for 320x240-ish graphics.[20:13] <Looki> liquixcat, one sec[20:14] <liquixcat> My favorite art style is Machinarium[20:14] <liquixcat> bar-none[20:14] <Looki> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTovZhrPpQ[20:14] <Looki> something like this[20:14] <Looki> I love that[20:14] <Nifflas> I'm so neutral I don't have a favorite art style

[20:14] <Alonso> You've shown me that before, Looki.[20:15] <Looki> yeah[20:15] <Alonso> It does look nice.[20:15] <Alonso> But very different from Castlevania/Smetroid.[20:15] <Nifflas> but obviously there are styles I like less and more[20:15] <liquixcat> Alonso link me to your art[20:15] <liquixcat> naow![20:15] <Alonso> I have no art.[20:15] <Alonso> :p[20:15] <liquixcat> your game screenshots :/[20:15] <Nifflas> actually, one game that had me amazed was Journey.[20:15] <Nifflas> that is just so crazy beautiful[20:16] <Looki> I still haven't played it...[20:16] <Alonso> Link, Nifflas?[20:16] <liquixcat> NO PS3 = no play Journey[20:16] <Nifflas> http://thatgamecompany.com/games/journey/ <-- I guess this is their website[20:16] <Looki> whom did you make this game for, Alonso?[20:17] <Alonso> A bank-like government company here.[20:17] <Looki> ah[20:17] <Nifflas> Journey is still the best game experience I ever had[20:17] <Alonso> Ah, yeah, Nifflas, I think you were the one who made me know of it.[20:17] <Nifflas> every aspect of the game was just things I love[20:18] <Looki> Alonso, http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/733/screenshot2012090303180.png[20:18] <Looki> whoops.[20:18] <Nifflas> anyway, I better get some sleep[20:18] <Alonso> Indeed. [20:18] <Alonso> What level was that?[20:18] <Nifflas> see you later everyone[20:18] <Alonso> Later.[20:18] <Looki> fourth, I think[20:18] <Looki> night[20:18] Nifflas has left the room
[20:18] <Alonso> Thanks.[20:18] <LB> Bye, Nifflas! D :[20:19] <Looki> haha, the death animation[20:19] <Looki> I purposely died just to see it.[20:19] <Alonso> (: I love seeing that swine die.[20:19] <Alonso> Looki, did you say yesterday you had already started your engine?[20:20] <Alonso> Or did i dream it?[20:20] <Looki> I was going to, but I was tired and went to bed.[20:20] <Alonso> What about today? :p[20:20] <Looki> also, why do you need the array thing before you can go to the number thing (I have no idea what's going on)[20:20] <Looki> nope.[20:20] <Looki> I still have some jobs to do

I need to finish those..[20:20] <Alonso>

[20:20] <Looki> *arrow thing[20:21] <Alonso> Ah, the bank uses things called cetes that you buy with $10.[20:21] <Alonso> So the game had to be about that.[20:21] <Looki> ah[20:21] <Looki> is the game not out yet?[20:22] <Alonso> No, but it will be soon I hope.[20:22] <Alonso> I want to be done with that.[20:24] <Looki> I think the threshold for the money counter to turn semi-transparent should be lower[20:24] <Looki> I'm directly under it, but the counter is fully visible[20:24] <Alonso> Are you at the latter levels?[20:24] <Looki> oh, don't tell me I can use the tail to spring around.[20:25] <Looki> yes[20:25] <Alonso> I had originally designed them so that they hid once they were done, but the guys wanted them to always be visible.[20:25] <Alonso> They've never played a game, but they get creative.[20:25] <Alonso> It's awful x)[20:25] <Looki> ...for a bank they sure sound picky about game design.[20:26] <Alonso> You have no idea.[20:26] <Alonso> And these guys are okay compared to others I've done games for.[20:26] <RickyRombo> needs a mute

[20:26] <Looki> you've made games for people and don't show them?

[20:26] <Looki> this one is great[20:26] <Alonso> Well, I'm not proud of them.[20:27] <Looki> well, this isn't the best game in the world, but it's very solid and nice.[20:28] <Alonso> Thanks.[20:29] <Alonso> Yours will be much better.[20:29] <Looki> yeah, especially the graphics.[20:29] <Looki> I could never make such graphics. the hardest part is picking colors.[20:30] <Alonso> I'd say the hardest part is knowing where to place each pixel.[20:30] <Alonso> And knowing when you're finished.[20:30] ChrisBurrows has left the room
[20:30] <Alonso> For knowing what colours to choose, you should just do something and play around with the curves/colours in photoshop.[20:31] <Alonso> Eventually you'll know to do it by yourself.[20:31] <Alonso> Also, use HSL, it's much better than RGB

[20:31] <liquixcat> Did you have formal training Mathias? Or all self-learned?[20:31] <Looki> hahahaha[20:31] <Looki> Alonso[20:31] <Looki> I found a nice exploit.[20:32] <Alonso> Delight me ¬¬[20:32] <Looki> the room with the block that moves along the path you have to memorize[20:32] <Alonso> Ah, yes, it pushes you into the wall.[20:32] <Mathias> yes; the academics taught me reverse-engineering and the wonders of oldschool tracking[20:32] <Looki> no[20:32] <Looki> there's a big pit of spikes[20:32] <liquixcat> which academics?[20:32] <Looki> if you just jump all the way to the right[20:32] <Looki> as far as possible[20:32] <Mathias> I was kidding[20:32] <Mathias> self-learned[20:32] <Looki> including doublejump[20:32] <Looki> you'll reset at the next savespot, where the block would lead you.[20:32] <Alonso> Ah, haha.[20:32] <liquixcat> Sarcasm detector has way less accuracy in text-based chat[20:32] <Alonso> Well, that's handy

[20:33] <Looki> yes[20:33] <Alonso> I can't wait to see what kind of exploits people will find in hfa.[20:33] <Mathias> but really, a monkey could program or reverse-engineer or track or whatever[20:33] <Mathias> it just takes a lot of time[20:33] <liquixcat> I can't stand how quickly people can pick up a framework and learn it[20:34] <Mathias> I have a principle when it comes to learning[20:34] <Mathias> "fail, then learn and fail again"[20:35] <Alonso> I agree with that.[20:35] <Alonso> Or, more like "fail, fail, fail, learn a bit."[20:35] <liquixcat> Ah good[20:35] <liquixcat> SO I'm doing the right thing[20:35] <Mathias> the number of failing iterations you make, the more you're likely to have learned[20:36] <Alonso> At least it's easy to know if you failed in programming.[20:36] <Alonso> In philosophy, you never know if you took the wrong path.[20:37] <liquixcat> I think if you have to wonder, than you took the wrong path[20:37] RickyRombo has changed status to: "Extended away", with the message: "dinner"
[20:37] <Alonso> That's taking the wrong path, for instance.[20:37] <Looki> oh, finally[20:37] <Mathias> I thought the essence of philosophy was wondering[20:37] <Looki> I guess I won, Alonso.[20:37] <Looki> FIN[20:37] <Alonso> Underwhelming much?

[20:37] <Mathias> anyhow good night[20:37] <Looki> 440 pesos[20:37] <liquixcat> I didn't specify philosophy[20:37] <RickyRombo> Alonso thats how I won[20:37] <RickyRombo> :[20:37] <RickyRombo> fell into the spikes[20:37] <RickyRombo> >_[20:37] <RickyRombo> >[20:37] <RickyRombo> lol[20:38] <RickyRombo> bbl[20:38] <Alonso> Oh, well, whatever. Let's call that a feature.[20:38] <LB> ok I finally caught up reading everything[20:38] <liquixcat> lol Alonso[20:38] <LB> mathias, nifflas, chrisburrows, and looki[20:38] <LB> you guys had a very entertaining conversation[20:38] <Looki> we did?![20:38] RickyRombo has left the room
[20:38] LB /save
[20:38] <Looki> I must have missed it.[20:38] <LB> about MMF2 and COnstruct, etc[20:38] <Looki> ah, that.